[Carbon-dev] [Architecture] Making Shindig apart of Carbon Core UI

Samisa Abeysinghe samisa at wso2.com
Mon Sep 19 05:00:43 EDT 2011


On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 10:50 AM, Nuwan Bandara <nuwan at wso2.com> wrote:

> Hi Samisa,
>
> On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 8:08 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe <samisa at wso2.com>wrote:
>
>> And the reality is that not all products want a dashboard as part of the
>> management console.
>>
>> Dashboard is more useful with monitoring and better fits in products like
>> BAM.
>>
>> Note that, even in BAM, the main dashboard is not that useful with many
>> tabs loaded for different views. I usually use the JSP pages in BAM as the
>> dashboard is slow to load and gadgets are not reliably working. So it is
>> more useful to focus on:
>> 1. Support multiple dashboards instead of the loads of tabs on the same
>> dashboard
>> 2. Make gadgets slick, fast and always work like the DB + JSP experience.
>>
>
> The feature I have proposed in this mail provides the ability to have the
> JSP like experiences with the gadgets across the UI. The developers can have
> the custom look and feel, they can theme the frame as they want etc.
>
>
>>
>> In other words, we are better off focusing on making this feature better
>> behave where it matters, rather than focusing on pushing this for all
>> products.
>>
>
> It was not my intention to ask all product teams to have the dashboard,
> rather to add better way to make UIs.
>
>
>>
>> And if other products want dashboards for better UI experience, why not
>> simply use something simple like:
>> http://connect.gxsoftware.com/dashboardplugin/demo/dashboard_multiple.html???
>>
>
> IMO, since we have a dashboard inhouse, there is no much of a gain in using
> another tool. If there are issues with current dashboard we can definitely
> fix them ASAP if any product team report them
>

I think the problems are really clear and crystal. The biggest is the
devlopment effort. Then I get this question of why does it need to go though
a server side component at all for many cases, where the browser can do it
completely and cleanly with JS. And with the second point, again comes the
ease of development, all that you want is to Google, and there is enough
support around on how to write with JQuery. So what does it give me as added
advantage to use Shinding here and why is it better? Gadget repo? Gadget
communication? Gadget security?



> Anyhow as a summary of this mail, we will proceed by having this feature to
> be apart of the dashboard collection, and the product teams who like to use
> it can add it to their profile.
>
> Regards,
> /Nuwan
>
>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 8:22 PM, Nuwan Bandara <nuwan at wso2.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 3:55 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana <sanjiva at wso2.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nuwan what I meant is that its a dependency any product team can choose
>>>> to take .. rather than it being in the core. I agree if users have to
>>>> install extra features no one will use it!
>>>
>>>
>>> ya got your point. will proceed with that approach. also in a related
>>> note, this will be a good addition for our AppDev framework, people can
>>> embed gadgets to their webapps without a hassle if we provide the feature
>>> with the AppDev library. Just a thought
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> /Nuwan
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sanjiva.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 8:18 PM, Nuwan Bandara <nuwan at wso2.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes I do understand that most products still dont have a clear vision
>>>>> of having a dashboard in their products. But I do believe the ability to
>>>>> embed gadgets in any of the pages will come in handy in many cases. With
>>>>> this feature even AS uses can create WebApps that can embed gadgets and
>>>>> install them in AS.
>>>>>
>>>>> I proposed this to be added to the core-ui is simply because this will
>>>>> enrich our UI and provide a pluggable architecture at the UI level. I do
>>>>> understand the concern about the size and will work more on making it
>>>>> smaller. However I believe if we just make it an installable feature,
>>>>> *no one will develop a UI component* with it, simply because to make
>>>>> it working you will have to install an extra feature.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> /Nuwan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Hiranya Jayathilaka <hiranya at wso2.com
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Right now the ground reality is, not many products use the dashboard
>>>>>> stuff. Also AFAIK many products currently don't have a clear vision on how
>>>>>> to integrate a dashboard into the product UIs. So until we get those issues
>>>>>> sorted I don't think we should add this to the Carbon core. In the mean time
>>>>>> perhaps we can look for ways to reduce the size of these components and
>>>>>> figure out better ways to integrate them with the products.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Hiranya
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 10:12 PM, Nuwan Bandara <nuwan at wso2.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Azeez,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 8:13 PM, Afkham Azeez <azeez at wso2.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -1 to increasing the distribution size. Big -1 to this addition.
>>>>>>>> Adding everything to carbon core violates the component model.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree the bundle is bulky in Size, and doing our best to reduce its
>>>>>>> size  (discussion on* [carbon-dev]Shindig upgrading effort*) it was
>>>>>>> 20MB before and we have managed to reduce it to 12MB.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> About the component model; is there another mechanism you suggest to
>>>>>>> have this feature to be integrated with the carbon-core ui, the objective of
>>>>>>> this feature is, that any UI component developer can add a gadget simply
>>>>>>> from a tag, like we add properties etc. if we make this a separate component
>>>>>>> IMO we cannot get the model working.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can you suggest the correct way in doing this if it violates the
>>>>>>> component model.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> /nuwan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  ----
>>>>>>>> Sent from my phone
>>>>>>>> On Sep 16, 2011 4:19 PM, "Nuwan Bandara" <nuwan at wso2.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> > Hi All,
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > We have done some work around gadget rendering, and we have
>>>>>>>> developed a new
>>>>>>>> > feature so that if you need a gadget in you page you do not need
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> > dashboard to show them. You can simply create a tag and add the
>>>>>>>> gadget URL
>>>>>>>> > and the UI part will be available in ur page. an example would be
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > <c:gadget url="/foo.xml" height="100" width="100"
>>>>>>>> class="gadget-style" />
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > once you add above tag you can place the gadget where ever you
>>>>>>>> want in your
>>>>>>>> > page.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > This feature can come in handy in many ways where you want to mix
>>>>>>>> static and
>>>>>>>> > dynamic information. We are working on revamping the system
>>>>>>>> statistics page
>>>>>>>> > with this new method just to demonstrate as a POC.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > However in-order to make this available we will have to add
>>>>>>>> shindig a part
>>>>>>>> > of carbon-core. Shindig is at the moment is 14.3MB and it will go
>>>>>>>> down for
>>>>>>>> > about 12MB with fixes to bundle plugin, hence this will increase
>>>>>>>> the size of
>>>>>>>> > the distribution in 12MBs.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > However I believe there are many advantages in having this as part
>>>>>>>> of our
>>>>>>>> > core UI framework. for an example Google it self is pushing this
>>>>>>>> model in
>>>>>>>> > almost all the pages they published recently [1]. I believe this
>>>>>>>> feature can
>>>>>>>> > be quite helpful for products like BPS, GREG and BAM directly. By
>>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>>> > this you can have functionalities like intercommunication between
>>>>>>>> UI parts,
>>>>>>>> > unified way to show analytics/statistics and any other dynamic
>>>>>>>> content.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > comments and ideas welcome.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > [1] http://code.google.com/apis/opensocial/
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > --
>>>>>>>> > *Thanks & Regards,
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Nuwan Bandara
>>>>>>>> > Senior Software Engineer
>>>>>>>> > WSO2 Inc. | http://wso2.com
>>>>>>>> > lean . enterprise . middleware
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > http://nuwan.bandara.co
>>>>>>>>  > *
>>>>>>>> > <http://www.nuwanbando.com/>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Carbon-dev mailing list
>>>>>>>> Carbon-dev at wso2.org
>>>>>>>> http://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/carbon-dev
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> *Thanks & Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nuwan Bandara
>>>>>>> Senior Software Engineer
>>>>>>> WSO2 Inc. | http://wso2.com
>>>>>>> lean . enterprise . middleware
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nuwan.bandara.co
>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list
>>>>>>> Architecture at wso2.org
>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Hiranya Jayathilaka
>>>>>> Associate Technical Lead;
>>>>>> WSO2 Inc.;  http://wso2.org
>>>>>> E-mail: hiranya at wso2.com;  Mobile: +94 77 633 3491
>>>>>> Blog: http://techfeast-hiranya.blogspot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Architecture mailing list
>>>>>> Architecture at wso2.org
>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *Thanks & Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Nuwan Bandara
>>>>> Senior Software Engineer
>>>>> WSO2 Inc. | http://wso2.com
>>>>> lean . enterprise . middleware
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nuwan.bandara.co
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Architecture mailing list
>>>>> Architecture at wso2.org
>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D.
>>>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.;  http://wso2.com/
>>>> email: sanjiva at wso2.com; phone: +94 11 763 9614; cell: +94 77 787 6880| +1
>>>> 650 265 8311
>>>> blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/
>>>>
>>>> Lean . Enterprise . Middleware
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Architecture mailing list
>>>> Architecture at wso2.org
>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Thanks & Regards,
>>>
>>> Nuwan Bandara
>>> Senior Software Engineer
>>> WSO2 Inc. | http://wso2.com
>>> lean . enterprise . middleware
>>>
>>> http://nuwan.bandara.co
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Architecture mailing list
>>> Architecture at wso2.org
>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Architecture mailing list
>> Architecture at wso2.org
>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Thanks & Regards,
>
> Nuwan Bandara
> Senior Software Engineer
> WSO2 Inc. | http://wso2.com
> lean . enterprise . middleware
>
> http://nuwan.bandara.co
> *
> <http://www.nuwanbando.com/>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Architecture mailing list
> Architecture at wso2.org
> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture
>
> Thanks,
Samisa...

Samisa Abeysinghe
VP Engineering
WSO2 Inc.
http://wso2.com
http://wso2.org
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